Changes for the next update!

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GalianRyu
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Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:20 am

Things have been mentioned in other threads, but I want to centralize it here and make sure I get the feed back of the community, so this thread will mainly be a Q&A sort of thing where you guys can give me your thoughts on changes. I'm still quite a ways from done, nobdy get all up in a tizzy yet, but as i work I would like to get some feedback on the parts I'm working on, so....

First Question: Should I make the path blocks 1 pixel shorter, like the 1.9 Grassy Path? Would that look good, or should I leave it even with the normal blocks?

Orange1861
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:16 am

I think bug-fixing should be a priority. Notable bugs that I have seen are villagers rubber-banding after unloading and reloading chunks and many stuff like tapestries when placed don't do anything. Also something that I have wanted is villages using Acacia and Dark Oak trees. Note: there are many other bugs, these are the ones that I have encountered.

Answer to the first question: Yeah, that's a good idea.
Last edited by Orange1861 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by PsiGuy60 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:54 am

Orange1861 wrote:I think bug-fixing should be a priority. Notable bugs that I have seen are villagers rubber-banding after unloading and reloading chunks and many stuff like tapestries when placed don't do anything. Also something that I have wanted is villages using Acacia and Dark Oak trees. Note: there are many other bugs, these are the ones that I have encountered.

First question: Yeah, that's a good idea, but don't make it a priority as there are many bugs.
I think bugfixing is one of the *many* reasons they're rewriting in the first place. Don't need to request that.

In response to GalianRyu, though, I think making it 1 pixel shorter is a decent idea cosmetically, especially since in 1.8+ they fixed the one-way-door thing that happens with blocks that are 1 pixel shorter.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by MoonCutter2B » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:50 pm

I say yes why not - if it looks good then it is good ;)
But what about the half slabs of some/all path blocks - stay the same I guess?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:52 pm

Orange1861 wrote:I think bug-fixing should be a priority.
By updating to 1.8 most of those old bugs will be gone anyways due to how the update works.


Anyways if you are taking suggestions I think more things should be available to customize like creation quests in particular.
Also it would be nice to see the foreign merchants expanded to the other cultures, it was originally added with the Normans back when the Normans was the only culture but then it was a forgotten concept when all of the other cultures were added one by one. Maybe even expand the foreign merchants to sell wares of the other cultures too.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:34 pm

The notion that is commonly suggested is villager repairing buildings. It has been refused due to potential lag problems.

Felinoel, a while back had a way to do it: It was to have villagers to check every building every night, it was refused.

My idea is built on Felinoel's: My idea is to first, have a config option to those who have problems. Felinoel's idea's problem was that every night you would have a lag spike. My solution to this is to do this randomly. Every building has a "repair" variable which when it is equal to a number, the villagers would check it. This would dynamically repair buildings. Also when you travel you would get a lag issue, so this repair variable will never equal the needed number until it has upgraded once (does not apply to buildings that don't have upgrades).
Last edited by Orange1861 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:39 pm

Orange1861 wrote:The notion that is commonly suggested is villager repairing buildings. It has been refused due to potential lag problems.

Felinoel, a while back had a way to do it: It was to have villagers to check every building every 5 minutes, it was refused.

My idea is built on Felinoel's: My idea is to first, have a config option to those who have problems. Felinoel's idea's problem was that every five minutes you would have a lag spike. My solution to this is to do this randomly. Every building has a "repair" variable which when it is equal to a number, the villagers would check it. This would dynamically repair buildings. Also when you travel you would get a lag issue, so this repair variable will never equal the needed number until it has upgraded once (does not apply to building that don't have upgrades).
I changed that to every night instead of every five minutes, but sure a repair option would work.

Instead of randomly though maybe it could be manually requested? Like if a building got destroyed then the player can go to the map, click the repair button, then select the building, and the building will be compared to the original file to see what is missing and then will have that listed as one of the next construction projects but it will compare what is missing and the blocks that are missing will be what is required to repair. So if a building lost one oak wood log block and the repair button was pressed, that building would go into the queue, maybe be third in line, and say that they need only one oak wood log for it.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:46 pm

felinoel wrote: I changed that to every night instead of every five minutes, but sure a repair option would work.

Instead of randomly though maybe it could be manually requested? Like if a building got destroyed then the player can go to the map, click the repair button, then select the building, and the building will be compared to the original file to see what is missing and then will have that listed as one of the next construction projects but it will compare what is missing and the blocks that are missing will be what is required to repair. So if a building lost one oak wood log block and the repair button was pressed, that building would go into the queue, maybe be third in line, and say that they need only one oak wood log for it.
I'll edit mine to change the mistake.

I think that the two could be combined, dynamically checking and manually requesting to check due to it being very unlikely but possible the building never gets checked.
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:05 pm

Orange1861 wrote:
felinoel wrote: I changed that to every night instead of every five minutes, but sure a repair option would work.

Instead of randomly though maybe it could be manually requested? Like if a building got destroyed then the player can go to the map, click the repair button, then select the building, and the building will be compared to the original file to see what is missing and then will have that listed as one of the next construction projects but it will compare what is missing and the blocks that are missing will be what is required to repair. So if a building lost one oak wood log block and the repair button was pressed, that building would go into the queue, maybe be third in line, and say that they need only one oak wood log for it.
I'll edit mine to change the mistake.

I think that the two could be combined, dynamically checking and manually requesting to check due to it being very unlikely but possible the building never gets checked.
But what if someone alters a building purposefully? Then a random check could come in and destroy everything he has done.




Oh and also another change request would be that when a village has no more buildings to build make it so it doesn't never build anything again. Some players want to build everything first and THEN buy the player buildings.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:37 pm

What? How is buying a player house change building behavior?
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:51 pm

Orange1861 wrote:What? How is buying a player house change building behavior?
Once a village is fully built buying a player house does nothing, they will build no more.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:55 pm

Ah, your previous sounded like you were asking to have villages stop building when they reach that point
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:26 pm

Orange1861 wrote:Ah, your previous sounded like you were asking to have villages stop building when they reach that point
Nah they already do that

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:02 am

We can work out the specifics of repair once we get there.

So, Galian, what is your next question?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:13 am

felinoel wrote:
Orange1861 wrote:What? How is buying a player house change building behavior?
Once a village is fully built buying a player house does nothing, they will build no more.
I actually tested this when I was doing my most recent checks on 1.7.10 Millenaire. They *will* start the new building after they say the village is "complete", but you have to walk far enough away for the village to unload and then come back, then the builder will actually start the player building (provided they have all the materials).

As for the paths, everyone seems to like them being shorter, so we'll go that, the slabs will also be shorter, just so everything blends correctly.

That was the only question I had right at the moment lol, but I will post future questions here as I get to them. Remember I work 50+ hours a week and code in the evenings, I only just managed to track down a bug in the new way 1.8.9 handles custom item models, so I little behind.
Last edited by GalianRyu on Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:20 am

GalianRyu wrote: That was the only question I had right at the moment lol, but I will post future questions here as I get to them. Remember I work 50+ hours a week and code in the evenings, I only just managed to track down a bug in the new way 1.8.9 handles custom item models, so I little behind.
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by PsiGuy60 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:04 pm

I would like to be able to disable Creation Quests via config. I like the idea, but sometimes I want my Minecraft to be entirely goal-free :-P

Also, is it possible to make villagers ignore things like Tinkers' Construct slime islands or Dungeon Pack sky villages (basically anything that logically wouldn't impede building due to being high enough in the sky without being connected to the ground) when flattening land?

This would potentially also make it possible to build under overhanging cliffs, which might be cool.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:29 pm

Oh and hey I started making this addon for after you complete the Creation Quests:
http://millenaire.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=400

But Kinn said he had plans for adding that himself so I stopped working on it (also because there was no way for me to implement it)

An acculturation expansion would be nice for cultures, it means they are getting used to their new home in the world of Minecraft and are aculturating to the natural surroundings of undead everywhere, magic being real, and even a dragon to fight.
I considered making my Inuit shamans adapting to Minecraft's magic in order to keep people to follow them and to have Normans go fight the dragon and bring back end stone and it was discussed that the Byzantines would need quartz for pillars since it looks so natural for their culture.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:32 am

psiguy60 wrote:I would like to be able to disable Creation Quests via config. I like the idea, but sometimes I want my Minecraft to be entirely goal-free :-P

Also, is it possible to make villagers ignore things like Tinkers' Construct slime islands or Dungeon Pack sky villages (basically anything that logically wouldn't impede building due to being high enough in the sky without being connected to the ground) when flattening land?

This would potentially also make it possible to build under overhanging cliffs, which might be cool.
I agree this would be awesome, but it'd be way, way harder than you imagine. You notice even the default minecraft villages can't really spawn under overhangs, there's a reason for this.

There's a base gameflow mechanic that village spawning and about 100 other things, including player spawn points, weather, and even memory-checking are built on that basically takes a given part of the map and checks the topmost block visible to the sky, seeing if its solid, if its leaves, if its water, etc. In order for a mod to ignore overhangs and sky-islands, you'd have to rewrite this entire mechanic yourself with some much more complicated logic. Maybe I will have the chutzpah for that one day, but definitely not now. Sorry.

felinoel wrote:Oh and hey I started making this addon for after you complete the Creation Quests:
http://millenaire.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=400

But Kinn said he had plans for adding that himself so I stopped working on it (also because there was no way for me to implement it)

An acculturation expansion would be nice for cultures, it means they are getting used to their new home in the world of Minecraft and are aculturating to the natural surroundings of undead everywhere, magic being real, and even a dragon to fight.
I considered making my Inuit shamans adapting to Minecraft's magic in order to keep people to follow them and to have Normans go fight the dragon and bring back end stone and it was discussed that the Byzantines would need quartz for pillars since it looks so natural for their culture.
I like this idea, along with Zoy's culture-based shrine. The two might even be able to be melded. One of the things thats new in 1.8.9 Millenaire is a block (and tiny building) called the Village Stone. Its a small stone with a plaque on it that is (quite literally) the heart of the village. I created it mainly because it is a tile entity holding all the local data on the village (that used to be in files), but it also organically fits into play, as it will be what you use a wand of negation on to destroy a village (and I think I'm going to have it explode when you do, just for dramatic effect) and when you create villages with a wand of summoning, the gold block will turn into it.

What if, after the Creation Quest is complete, the Village Stone can be upgraded into the Village Shrine. The stone will still be there (obviously), but have a culturally appropriate shrine, altar, mosque, etc. built around it. Once they do, similar to a research facility in a RTS game, the village gains some new abilities, such as enchanting, alchemy, and even culture-specific "power-ups" like Zoy mentioned. Hell, we could even make it adaptable to popular technical mods, like Thaumcraft or Botania, so that the Japanese can learn mana-based botany from Botania, and Normans start studying what the Alchemist discovered and can have Thaumaturgists. Its a very rough frame work of an idea, and again something that I don't even know when I would be able to be getting around to doing, but I think its an interesting idea.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:33 pm

GalianRyu wrote:What if, after the Creation Quest is complete, the Village Stone can be upgraded into the Village Shrine. The stone will still be there (obviously), but have a culturally appropriate shrine, altar, mosque, etc. built around it. Once they do, similar to a research facility in a RTS game, the village gains some new abilities, such as enchanting, alchemy, and even culture-specific "power-ups" like Zoy mentioned. Hell, we could even make it adaptable to popular technical mods, like Thaumcraft or Botania, so that the Japanese can learn mana-based botany from Botania, and Normans start studying what the Alchemist discovered and can have Thaumaturgists. Its a very rough frame work of an idea, and again something that I don't even know when I would be able to be getting around to doing, but I think its an interesting idea.
Well the acculturation plan was to give new buildings to be built, new upgrades to old buildings, new shop items, and maybe new quests too.

As for being reliant on other mods... I am iffy on that. What if something happens to the other mods? What if people don't want to use those mods?

Also using other mods was the basis of my Saxon culture so... =b
It was to be a completely modular culture with various villages you can add or remove based on what mods you have and since the Saxons were as close to the English as I could get I was going to use them from an alternate steampunk universe since the story of Millenaire is that these villages (and Steve) all were somehow transported to Minecraft, the story of my Saxons were that they were transported from a steampunk universe lol

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by B35Patriot » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:27 pm

Yeah, definitely that would mean Milleniaire would be dependent on other mods. What if you instead used an add-on for it? Basically a Forbidden Magic (add-on) to Thamucraft. (Milleniaire) Mind you this is just an idea, but that would at least avoid problems of compatibility with the main mod in terms of coding, and it could be easily removed by simply dragging it out of the mods folder.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:08 am

I didn't mean being dependent on those mods o_O I meant it as an add-on, if you have them installed, it would be an option.

I was thinking of new buildings and upgrades to buildings, just they become available after the Shrine, like I said, it would be similar to the Research buildings in a game like Star Craft, that suddenly make new options available for other buildings.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by MoonCutter2B » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:42 am

A few months ago I was thinking about how I wanted Millenaire to evolve.
One of the things was some kind of foundation stone for each village that contained all local data :)
The local data should be saved and updated in a vanilla book inside the stone.
Each house/building should also have a chest/stone with a book for data.
The idea was that if the game crashed and the normal saved data was lost it should still be possible for the mod to recover the data from the books (with a little help from the player) .This idea is probably not so useful anymore.

Another idea was that the foundation stones should be crafted by the player and that villages was only established if the player had a stone in the backpack (sort of how the gold blocks are used now but without the wand). The stones/villages/lone buildings should also be tiered; the more expensive/complex stones = bigger villages/towns/lone buildings. Type of village and culture should still be random.

One of the commands I wanted to have in my foundation stones was "hibernate" - if I wanted/needed to lower cpu load.

Materials removed when building and updating should be saved and re-used.

More trees and flowers both as part of the buildings but also as separate "buildings".

What about village squares with and without decorations? Ponds?

Using stairs as part of paths?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Akeakamai » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:35 am

GalianRyu wrote:
I was thinking of new buildings and upgrades to buildings, just they become available after the Shrine, like I said, it would be similar to the Research buildings in a game like Star Craft, that suddenly make new options available for other buildings.


This is an interesting idea. I was thinking that some special items, like alchemists explosive which us specific for the creation quest, should be available somehow after finishing the quest. I mean, the alchemist gives You only 4 pieces of it, what if someone would like to use it later? I think that some new buildings after finishing the creation quest for that culture (leadership) would be nice place to buy such items. Like, the alchemist may sell explosives himself after finishing quest, or, there can be more alchemists in the world, once you have leadership, their building with shop added to the villages,. Other cultures may have different add-ons.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:31 pm

MoonCutter2B wrote:Each house/building should also have a chest/stone with a book for data.
The idea was that if the game crashed and the normal saved data was lost it should still be possible for the mod to recover the data from the books (with a little help from the player) .This idea is probably not so useful anymore.
Millenaire currently (or at least used to) has/had individual chests for every building specifically for data to be stored, that is why every building has at least one chest.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:53 am

felinoel wrote:
MoonCutter2B wrote:Each house/building should also have a chest/stone with a book for data.
The idea was that if the game crashed and the normal saved data was lost it should still be possible for the mod to recover the data from the books (with a little help from the player) .This idea is probably not so useful anymore.
Millenaire currently (or at least used to) has/had individual chests for every building specifically for data to be stored, that is why every building has at least one chest.
That is sort of how it works. I had thought it stored much more data than it does, but it mainly just remembers the building's position. The signs just display data, most of the data was still stored in temp and text files. The idea is to basically put the data, in a similar fashion, in a tile entity in the VillageStone, so those things still read it in a way that (hopefully) minimizes how much rewriting I do.

This should also mean that you wouldn't even need to have something to recover data, because it should be much harder to lose it in the first place. We're not trying to store data outside Minecraft and then reinsert it, we're just storing it inside Minecraft properly.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by MoonCutter2B » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:15 am

GalianRyu wrote:
felinoel wrote:
MoonCutter2B wrote:Each house/building should also have a chest/stone with a book for data.
The idea was that if the game crashed and the normal saved data was lost it should still be possible for the mod to recover the data from the books (with a little help from the player) .This idea is probably not so useful anymore.
Millenaire currently (or at least used to) has/had individual chests for every building specifically for data to be stored, that is why every building has at least one chest.
That is sort of how it works. I had thought it stored much more data than it does, but it mainly just remembers the building's position. The signs just display data, most of the data was still stored in temp and text files. The idea is to basically put the data, in a similar fashion, in a tile entity in the VillageStone, so those things still read it in a way that (hopefully) minimizes how much rewriting I do.

This should also mean that you wouldn't even need to have something to recover data, because it should be much harder to lose it in the first place. We're not trying to store data outside Minecraft and then reinsert it, we're just storing it inside Minecraft properly.
yes, my idea with a book was exactly that; data stored inside Minecraft in vanilla item :)

I guess all/most of the village data will only be loaded/active when the village is active? (to save RAM).

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:16 pm

Storing village data in a tile entity is a great idea. And making the "Village Stone" the center of the village is also a great idea; normal Testificates use their wells in the same way.

Concerning the Village Stone, I love the idea of it needing to be upgraded before the village can grow further (and giving bonuses as it does). Does that mean we'll be able to set "tier levels" to buildings and upgrades instead of just setting "primary" and "secondary" buildings? I'd like to start referring to villages as "T1" or "T4".

Hey, slight change of topic, but I was wondering, do you think that there are any ways to improve some of the more conceptual ideas like trade and diplomacy between villages? I mean, those could probably use some small reworkings, as well.

Something I had mentioned to Galian in a private conversation was the idea of trade prices changing over time due to various circumstances. eg, supply and demand. Now, I'm not advocating a worldwide market economy, as that's far too big for this game (unless you wanted it), but a simple supply/demand model. Villages that need a particular resource will buy it for double the base price (and will outright refuse to sell it without "One of us" status), while resources they have in abundance they'll sell at half base price (and, once again, outright refuse to buy it without "One of us" status). This way, there is a psuedo market economy that rewards players for finding resource shortages and limits market abuse. Right now, you can buy wood timber frames from the Japanese for less you can sell them back, which means you'll make a massive profit in both Denier and reputation (although they'll only sell them if they actually need them for a construction project, strangely). With my system, they will buy them only if they need them, and you can't buy any excess until they've finished the project, unless the next project requires them as well.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by E_50_Panzer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:00 am

Zoythrus wrote:Storing village data in a tile entity is a great idea. And making the "Village Stone" the center of the village is also a great idea; normal Testificates use their wells in the same way.

Concerning the Village Stone, I love the idea of it needing to be upgraded before the village can grow further (and giving bonuses as it does). Does that mean we'll be able to set "tier levels" to buildings and upgrades instead of just setting "primary" and "secondary" buildings? I'd like to start referring to villages as "T1" or "T4".
That's a great idea there.
Zoythrus wrote:Something I had mentioned to Galian in a private conversation was the idea of trade prices changing over time due to various circumstances. eg, supply and demand. Now, I'm not advocating a worldwide market economy, as that's far too big for this game (unless you wanted it), but a simple supply/demand model. Villages that need a particular resource will buy it for double the base price (and will outright refuse to sell it without "One of us" status), while resources they have in abundance they'll sell at half base price (and, once again, outright refuse to buy it without "One of us" status). This way, there is a psuedo market economy that rewards players for finding resource shortages and limits market abuse. Right now, you can buy wood timber frames from the Japanese for less you can sell them back, which means you'll make a massive profit in both Denier and reputation (although they'll only sell them if they actually need them for a construction project, strangely). With my system, they will buy them only if they need them, and you can't buy any excess until they've finished the project, unless the next project requires them as well.
Ooooh Yes! that's ingenious sir.

As for new ideas, what's it like to code or script interactions/events with mobs? Hostile ones in particular. I thought about Millenaire villages being besieged or raided by hordes of zombies or skeletons. The reason being that combat is quite poor in this mod, despite its other glories, and while mob attacks wouldn't make up for village raids, they could add some great action to your experience. Of course, villagers would need to be targets for most hostile mobs.

I have a few specifics: Perhaps every 3-7 minecraft days there would be a chance for a mob attack to happen, dependent on how progressed the village in question is. (25% chance for Low tier towns, 35% for mid, 60% for high, 99.99999999999999% for maxed, etc.)

The content of these attacks could vary. So if it happens to be an attack night, the game then decides what kind of force it is, example: 25% chance for straight up zombies, 20% for zombies and skeletons, 5% for spider jockeys, 25% for skeletons, 10% for spiders, 15% for something funky, you get the idea.

After it decides what is attacking, the script(?) comes up with how many of the attackers there are. This would be based off of some formula or ratio on the village's defensive value, population, size, and resources. So maybe 1 mob for every 2 defence points, 1 mob for every adult villager, 1 for every 25 blocks of space in the village, and maybe some denar's worth of village supplies. This attacker ratio could be modified depending on how far the village has progressed, so for a high tier village, 1 mob per defence point, 2 mobs per every villager type, 1 for every 20 blocks of space, and maybe the resources factor could remain the same.

Just an idea. I'm absolutely clueless when it comes to making these things in minecraft, so this may not even be possible.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:48 am

E_50_Panzer wrote: As for new ideas, what's it like to code or script interactions/events with mobs? Hostile ones in particular. I thought about Millenaire villages being besieged or raided by hordes of zombies or skeletons. The reason being that combat is quite poor in this mod, despite its other glories, and while mob attacks wouldn't make up for village raids, they could add some great action to your experience. Of course, villagers would need to be targets for most hostile mobs.

I have a few specifics: Perhaps every 3-7 minecraft days there would be a chance for a mob attack to happen, dependent on how progressed the village in question is. (25% chance for Low tier towns, 35% for mid, 60% for high, 99.99999999999999% for maxed, etc.)

The content of these attacks could vary. So if it happens to be an attack night, the game then decides what kind of force it is, example: 25% chance for straight up zombies, 20% for zombies and skeletons, 5% for spider jockeys, 25% for skeletons, 10% for spiders, 15% for something funky, you get the idea.

After it decides what is attacking, the script(?) comes up with how many of the attackers there are. This would be based off of some formula or ratio on the village's defensive value, population, size, and resources. So maybe 1 mob for every 2 defence points, 1 mob for every adult villager, 1 for every 25 blocks of space in the village, and maybe some denar's worth of village supplies. This attacker ratio could be modified depending on how far the village has progressed, so for a high tier village, 1 mob per defence point, 2 mobs per every villager type, 1 for every 20 blocks of space, and maybe the resources factor could remain the same.

Just an idea. I'm absolutely clueless when it comes to making these things in minecraft, so this may not even be possible.
I love the idea, but what would the risk be if they lost? While a siege is an awesome idea (and has basis in MC already), what happens if they win or lose the siege?

Here's my idea, you know how right now, dead villagers respawn every night? What if we made that 3-4 days instead? They'll still respawn, but it will just take time, as a form of punishment. If each culture was given a Physician's Hut or something, then the respawn would be reset back to the next night. Villagers also shouldn't respawn during an active raid or siege, as I've seen times where a raid takes forever, and the defending side just gets reinforcements mid-raid. They should just respawn next night.

Also worth noting, I feel like growing the village should help them "overcome" the sieges, and not just make the sieges harder. While a T1 village might struggle to stay alive against a few zombies or whatever, a T4 should be easily able to brush it off.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by E_50_Panzer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:58 am

Zoythrus wrote:
I love the idea, but what would the risk be if they lost? While a siege is an awesome idea (and has basis in MC already), what happens if they win or lose the siege?

Here's my idea, you know how right now, dead villagers respawn every night? What if we made that 3-4 days instead? They'll still respawn, but it will just take time, as a form of punishment. If each culture was given a Physician's Hut or something, then the respawn would be reset back to the next night. Villagers also shouldn't respawn during an active raid or siege, as I've seen times where a raid takes forever, and the defending side just gets reinforcements mid-raid. They should just respawn next night.

Also worth noting, I feel like growing the village should help them "overcome" the sieges, and not just make the sieges harder. While a T1 village might struggle to stay alive against a few zombies or whatever, a T4 should be easily able to brush it off.
Ah, good points. Concerning your last one: I see what you mean. Perhaps, instead of bigger attack at the normal rate, you just get more 'epic' attacks much further apart. So instead of a weekly attack for high tier towns, you may get an all out assault every month or three. Maybe even rarer. I don't want this to be 'Another settlement needs our help' from fallout 4, so the battles with the maxed villages should be something the history books write about, and not a common occurrence.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:00 am

E_50_Panzer wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:
I love the idea, but what would the risk be if they lost? While a siege is an awesome idea (and has basis in MC already), what happens if they win or lose the siege?

Here's my idea, you know how right now, dead villagers respawn every night? What if we made that 3-4 days instead? They'll still respawn, but it will just take time, as a form of punishment. If each culture was given a Physician's Hut or something, then the respawn would be reset back to the next night. Villagers also shouldn't respawn during an active raid or siege, as I've seen times where a raid takes forever, and the defending side just gets reinforcements mid-raid. They should just respawn next night.

Also worth noting, I feel like growing the village should help them "overcome" the sieges, and not just make the sieges harder. While a T1 village might struggle to stay alive against a few zombies or whatever, a T4 should be easily able to brush it off.
Ah, good points. Concerning your last one: I see what you mean. Perhaps, instead of bigger attack at the normal rate, you just get more 'epic' attacks much further apart. So instead of a weekly attack for high tier towns, you may get an all out assault every month or three. Maybe even rarer. I don't want this to be 'Another settlement needs our help' from fallout 4, so the battles with the maxed villages should be something the history books write about, and not a common occurrence.

That'd be okay. I'd love to see the villagers comment on an impending siege a few days ahead of time, like "The undead are getting restless..."

And yeah, seeing 35 Villagers face 30 Zombies and 15 Skeletons would be a battle to remember.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by E_50_Panzer » Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:05 am

Zoythrus wrote:That'd be okay. I'd love to see the villagers comment on an impending siege a few days ahead of time, like "The undead are getting restless..."

And yeah, seeing 35 Villagers face 30 Zombies and 15 Skeletons would be a battle to remember.
Perhaps both sides could fight this siege out for 2-3 nights in a row. The game adjusts the mob spawns to the number of civilians able to fight each time, to represent attrition. After the last night is won, you get a cheap 'congraturationz' message and everyone has to rebuild and heal. Maybe some monument building could be an unlock if a town survives this, and it gives a combat bonus after it is built.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by MoonCutter2B » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:27 am

With the risk of being boring - the existing raids in Millenaire has never worked perfectly.
Mobs and/or villagers getting stuck. Villages getting stuck in raids even if there are no mobs around.
Insane lag in game, rubber banding, etc.

I guess some of the problems is connected to the chunk load/unload thingy and having raids spanning over several MC days would currently mean that you would have to stay in the village all the time until its ends.

I hope all the changes being implemented right now will solve some or all current issues with raids.
Then we can start expanding this feature.
have you checked the "suggestions" page on the wiki - there are a lot of cool suggestions there

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:09 am

MoonCutter2B wrote:With the risk of being boring - the existing raids in Millenaire has never worked perfectly.
Mobs and/or villagers getting stuck. Villages getting stuck in raids even if there are no mobs around.
Insane lag in game, rubber banding, etc.

I guess some of the problems is connected to the chunk load/unload thingy and having raids spanning over several MC days would currently mean that you would have to stay in the village all the time until its ends.

I hope all the changes being implemented right now will solve some or all current issues with raids.
Then we can start expanding this feature.
have you checked the "suggestions" page on the wiki - there are a lot of cool suggestions there
Yeah, having things go on for a few days seems a bit long. One night is enough.

We're also assuming that the crappiness of the current raids is due to the poor optimization of the code, but maybe Galian's labor will easily correct this along with other issues.

And yes, we've checked the Suggestions area. I think that this thread is a little more dedicated to small improvements which require minute changes to existing code instead of "ENTIRE NEW FEATURES." Hence, things like sieges (which already happen to Testificate villages), small trade tweaks, and storing all the data in a tile entity that is also a building.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:45 am

Zoythrus wrote:That'd be okay. I'd love to see the villagers comment on an impending siege a few days ahead of time, like "The undead are getting restless..."

And yeah, seeing 35 Villagers face 30 Zombies and 15 Skeletons would be a battle to remember.
MoonCutter2B wrote:With the risk of being boring - the existing raids in Millenaire has never worked perfectly.
Mobs and/or villagers getting stuck. Villages getting stuck in raids even if there are no mobs around.
Insane lag in game, rubber banding, etc.

I guess some of the problems is connected to the chunk load/unload thingy and having raids spanning over several MC days would currently mean that you would have to stay in the village all the time until its ends.

I hope all the changes being implemented right now will solve some or all current issues with raids.
Then we can start expanding this feature.
have you checked the "suggestions" page on the wiki - there are a lot of cool suggestions there
A combat update would be nice, but this is more of a future feature addition than a small change in the update.
Making changes in the code to allow this to be added in the future might be the best route but doing it all for the next update is too much no matter how much better the current raid system can be.

EDIT:
Oh someone else said that, should have refreshed the page lol

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:55 am

felinoel wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:That'd be okay. I'd love to see the villagers comment on an impending siege a few days ahead of time, like "The undead are getting restless..."

And yeah, seeing 35 Villagers face 30 Zombies and 15 Skeletons would be a battle to remember.
MoonCutter2B wrote:With the risk of being boring - the existing raids in Millenaire has never worked perfectly.
Mobs and/or villagers getting stuck. Villages getting stuck in raids even if there are no mobs around.
Insane lag in game, rubber banding, etc.

I guess some of the problems is connected to the chunk load/unload thingy and having raids spanning over several MC days would currently mean that you would have to stay in the village all the time until its ends.

I hope all the changes being implemented right now will solve some or all current issues with raids.
Then we can start expanding this feature.
have you checked the "suggestions" page on the wiki - there are a lot of cool suggestions there
A combat update would be nice, but this is more of a future feature addition than a small change in the update.
Making changes in the code to allow this to be added in the future might be the best route but doing it all for the next update is too much no matter how much better the current raid system can be.

EDIT:
Oh someone else said that, should have refreshed the page lol

Oh, of course. I don't actually expect raids or sieges to be improved unless by accident right now. Those can totally be a fix for a much later date. Still, right now, raids do need a bit of work, but all in due time.

Let's focus on simpler fixes for the time being, like getting the villages to even work properly!
Can we at least have a group discussion on the effects of a village stone? Should they have a passive benefit that gets progressively better as you level them up, or should they only provide a benefit when maxed out?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by E_50_Panzer » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:57 am

Oh, right, small changes. Well, I guess the mob attacks idea should be tucked away for later, we need an actual mod here in the first place.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:23 pm

Zoythrus wrote:Let's focus on simpler fixes for the time being, like getting the villages to even work properly!
Can we at least have a group discussion on the effects of a village stone? Should they have a passive benefit that gets progressively better as you level them up, or should they only provide a benefit when maxed out?
What do you mean by benefits? Like a beacon?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:24 pm

felinoel wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:Let's focus on simpler fixes for the time being, like getting the villages to even work properly!
Can we at least have a group discussion on the effects of a village stone? Should they have a passive benefit that gets progressively better as you level them up, or should they only provide a benefit when maxed out?
What do you mean by benefits? Like a beacon?
Somewhere else I mentioned the idea of having a "shrine" that provides the villagers with a passive benefit, just like what the Hindi have now (the Irrigation thing). Everyone should get one, and Galian mentioned making it the Village Stone.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Ruff Ghanor » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:43 am

One thing that would be nice to implement in this update would be make the villagers faster when they are building. Many large buildings take an HUGE time to complete and are mostly the villagers walking from one side to the other of the site barely putting any blocks (like the updates that add moats in castles/keeps).

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:20 am

Zoythrus wrote:
felinoel wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:Let's focus on simpler fixes for the time being, like getting the villages to even work properly!
Can we at least have a group discussion on the effects of a village stone? Should they have a passive benefit that gets progressively better as you level them up, or should they only provide a benefit when maxed out?
What do you mean by benefits? Like a beacon?
Somewhere else I mentioned the idea of having a "shrine" that provides the villagers with a passive benefit, just like what the Hindi have now (the Irrigation thing). Everyone should get one, and Galian mentioned making it the Village Stone.
Ummm what exactly does it do?
Ruff Ghanor wrote:One thing that would be nice to implement in this update would be make the villagers faster when they are building. Many large buildings take an HUGE time to complete and are mostly the villagers walking from one side to the other of the site barely putting any blocks (like the updates that add moats in castles/keeps).
I guess it could be added in the configs but I like the realism.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:25 am

Zoythrus wrote:Here's my two cents on the topic of horses, all cultures except the Maya (and Inuits?) should have a stable. The Maya didn't use horses, historically, as they had none! They had llamas, but llamas are more beasts of burden than "mighty steeds." I don't know about the Inuits, but tameable reindeer would be cool, I guess.

To replace horses, the Maya need something, and I feel that something should be boots with the Speed enchantment. Probably not as fast as a horse, but definitely faster than normal! Bonus points if the villagers themselves can get these boots, to speed up things like construction and the like. Or, if you can't make the boots work with the villagers, what if we gave them a monument that made all people of that village passively faster? Like the building the Hindi have that supposedly increases crop growth.

What if all factions had a "passive" building that would passively grant the entire village a buff? I'd make it unique per culture, to further diversify them. Here are my thoughts on that:

Normans: A shrine that increases the HP/Damage of the villagers.
Maya: A monument that increases movement speed.
Hindi: That irrigation pit that increases crop growth rates.
Byzantines: A shrine that improves the productivity of miners/lumberjacks.
Japanese: A shrine which improves the durability of all tools/armor made in that village. Idk if that's possible, but it sounds cool.
Inuits: A shrine that improves growth rates of livestock.

What do you think?
Here was the post where I discuss just that. And yes, I know that the Inca had llamas, not the Maya. Point being, Galian mentioned making these passive structures into the Village Stone, where it eventually starts giving benefits once upgraded.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Ruff Ghanor » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:39 pm

Ruff Ghanor wrote:One thing that would be nice to implement in this update would be make the villagers faster when they are building. Many large buildings take an HUGE time to complete and are mostly the villagers walking from one side to the other of the site barely putting any blocks (like the updates that add moats in castles/keeps).
I guess it could be added in the configs but I like the realism.
Well you could change betwem both in the mod options menu. One other building that takes hours to complete (and I know you are a big fan of) is the Walls from "The Castle" add-on" (I know is not actual vanilla/canon millenaire but still)

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Orange1861 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:16 am

A solution could be more than one villager building at once since realistically, 1 person did not build things.
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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Zoythrus » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:38 am

Orange1861 wrote:A solution could be more than one villager building at once since realistically, 1 person did not build things.
You can believe in dragons, zombies, and a world made of blocks, but can't fathom why only one villager can build at a time? Screw realism, this is Minecraft!

Seriously, it just saves processing power if the building is "printed," just like a 3D printer.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by GalianRyu » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:15 am

Zoythrus wrote:
Orange1861 wrote:A solution could be more than one villager building at once since realistically, 1 person did not build things.
You can believe in dragons, zombies, and a world made of blocks, but can't fathom why only one villager can build at a time? Screw realism, this is Minecraft!

Seriously, it just saves processing power if the building is "printed," just like a 3D printer.
Exactly, the building is plotted out, in a very specific way and the villager follows that point plot like a 3D printer would, doing it any other way would be....difficult. From a theoretical standpoint, more villagers would make it go faster, but from a coding standpoint, it would make it very likely buildings don't build right as multiple villagers accidentally place the same block or forget to place once because another one was supposed to.

The only way to really fix the specific issue he's mentioning (and I will admit, watching them moat the Norman Fortress is tedious) is to change the way the village pathfinds around the building, but Millenaire already has marginally better pathfinding in it than actual Minecraft villagers, so I don't know if I could improve on it much.

FOr now we'll leave it as is, maybe in the future a better solution will present itself.

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by felinoel » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:09 pm

GalianRyu wrote:
Zoythrus wrote:
Orange1861 wrote:A solution could be more than one villager building at once since realistically, 1 person did not build things.
You can believe in dragons, zombies, and a world made of blocks, but can't fathom why only one villager can build at a time? Screw realism, this is Minecraft!

Seriously, it just saves processing power if the building is "printed," just like a 3D printer.
Exactly, the building is plotted out, in a very specific way and the villager follows that point plot like a 3D printer would, doing it any other way would be....difficult. From a theoretical standpoint, more villagers would make it go faster, but from a coding standpoint, it would make it very likely buildings don't build right as multiple villagers accidentally place the same block or forget to place once because another one was supposed to.

The only way to really fix the specific issue he's mentioning (and I will admit, watching them moat the Norman Fortress is tedious) is to change the way the village pathfinds around the building, but Millenaire already has marginally better pathfinding in it than actual Minecraft villagers, so I don't know if I could improve on it much.

FOr now we'll leave it as is, maybe in the future a better solution will present itself.
Well...
The buildings could be split into two and then printed by two people?
Don't change the building plotting or the pathfinding just split the building into two parts somehow maybe?

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by Ruff Ghanor » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:52 am

Don't change the building plotting or the pathfinding just split the building into two parts somehow maybe?
I don't know if that's easy or not. That is why my idea was just making the villagers walk fasters and/or Teleport to the next spot a block must be placed

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Re: Changes for the next update!

Post by MrHaster » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:53 am

Havent been around for a really long time but seeing that someone is still improving this mod makes me really happy :)
I have been playing millenaire since the beginning and am playing the latest version right now and still completely love it! :D
Anyway if u need someone with alot of millenaire experience to test out new versions im up for it ;)

PS: if a new version comes out for Multiplayer im definitely putting millenaire on my server!

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