Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

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Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Zoythrus » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:15 pm

Hello, everyone!

Zoythrus here, and we're going to do a forum first - a Megathread! I'll be posting a new Megathread every once in a while for the sake of constructive discussion on a specific topic, like cultures, mechanics, architecture, and etc.

Today's thread is going to be about the Normans, and only about the Normans. Here is where you want to talk about anything you want Norman related in the interest of helping us better the culture. Talk about what you like and dislike, what you find fun and what you find boring, ideas to add to the culture and things to remove.

RULES:

Keep the discussion civil, we're all friends here. If you disagree with someone's opinion, please, try to have a reasonable discourse.

This thread is about the Normans. Any unrelated posts, memes, discussion, and etc will be removed. We're here for a very specific purpose - the very first culture.

Related to the above point, we do not want to talk about bug reports or the Norman Creation Quest. Those are things that will be worked out later.

Millenaire is set in the 11th century. Keep that in mind when you discuss them. While Millenaire might be loosely historically inspired, we want to keep things focused on the 11th century.

Not that this should be a problem, but repeat offenders who refuse to play by these nice rules will be banned, and we don't want that to happen.

Have fun!
-Zoythrus
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Orange1861 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:55 am

The Normans are a pretty good culture in terms of villager variety and content, but most of the buildings were based on earlier versions of MC when there was much less blocks. They need reworking many in buildings and textures since they seem boring compared to the other cultures.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby osamcoolster101 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:03 am

The first few player houses in the Norman village where always much less interesting to me when compared to the other villages houses.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby felinoel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:44 pm

idk I always liked how plain the Normans were, it gave a base model for me to opinionate on the other cultures with. Like it was always the control group in my experience.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby sakkarCZ » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:49 pm

I think norman buildings look great. They look very casual and I like this style. It weaks up my memoris about old beta-minecraft.

But I think it will be good if there are more types of buildings. You know it looks silly (sorry for that) when there are many types of norman villages with almost the same main hall. It will be better if there are more types for main hall or for regular hauses that will not look same.

Sorry for my bad English. I hope you understand everything.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby MoonCutter2B » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:19 pm

I like both the original versions of the buildings and the alternative ones from the Library.
Maybe have both? Or a mix of them? Some of the starting houses could be original design and the later that the player helps with an updated design.
One reason I like the newer designs is that I have to explore a bit more to find the stuff they need.
I'd also like to see some more types of houses, if possible combined with new professions/items in the village.
Like the glass blower from one of the add-ons in the Library. Not all of them has to be "working" but just to get more variations.
I'd like to see more trees, flowers, leaves etc. as part of the buildings.
What about a roman ruin as a decoration.
And something naval, a dock (if there is a lake/ocean close to the village).
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Zoythrus » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:24 am

I'm getting this feeling that their architecture needs updating, and to be honest, it does.

What about their weapons, armor, food, and tools? Are they missing anything?
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Xour » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:22 am

I don't know about everyone else but when I see a Norman Gros-Bourg spawn with three hamlets I don't get excited, in fact I usually play with that village disabled. It takes up a lot of room in the world and it doesn't really feel like there that well connected. Just throwing that opinion out there.

Zoythrus wrote:I'm getting this feeling that their architecture needs updating, and to be honest, it does.


I somewhat agree, there buildings are very basic but for some reason it feels like that's there role in millenaire, to fill in that basic culture style? Maybe they could start with that basic feel and end in a more grand manner? Even there unique blocks look very basic.

Zoythrus wrote:What about their weapons, armor, food, and tools? Are they missing anything?


Like most of the civs, there tools and weapons are just a collection of gear that's slightly better than diamond. I'd like to think that all the civs are going to get a unique enchantment to there gear, as has been discussed before, so that there's a purpose in upgrading them specifically. The only thing I've ever done with Norman food, is sell it back to the villagers.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby SaintScotia » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:59 pm

When I reflect on my memories of the Norman's, I always return to the same thought: These noble people were the proverbial "Salt of the Earth". No frills. Nothing particularly fancy. Just good, strong, earth-bound folks who weren't flashy or overly pompous; folks that worked hard, took care of their own and made life "real". Do I want to trade with the castle? Yes. Do I want to farm veggies? Yes, I do.

The other Millenaire cultures, from the Mayan to the Byzantine, always struck me as exotic and more for the specialized player. While I deeply appreciate the diversity of the other cultures, I usually returned to my Norman villages first and cultivated their expansion.

This is why, despite all the other Millenaire cultures, I will always consider myself an adopted Norman, and I couldn't be more proud. :-)
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Zoythrus » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:25 am

SaintScotia wrote:When I reflect on my memories of the Norman's, I always return to the same thought: These noble people were the proverbial "Salt of the Earth". No frills. Nothing particularly fancy. Just good, strong, earth-bound folks who weren't flashy or overly pompous; folks that worked hard, took care of their own and made life "real". Do I want to trade with the castle? Yes. Do I want to farm veggies? Yes, I do.

The other Millenaire cultures, from the Mayan to the Byzantine, always struck me as exotic and more for the specialized player. While I deeply appreciate the diversity of the other cultures, I usually returned to my Norman villages first and cultivated their expansion.

This is why, despite all the other Millenaire cultures, I will always consider myself an adopted Norman, and I couldn't be more proud. :-)


And this is really what we want to cultivate with the Normans, a basic, yet interesting, feel. Norman tools will be designed to be functional and practical, with no additional gimmicks, so that you can both get a feel for the mod and just have a reliable weapon.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Akeakamai » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:51 pm

In my opinion Norman architecture is quite good, it may be upgraded somehow, yes, but I like those stoney - timber frame feeling. Some of player houses are really boring there, but the rest is ok. Oh, They have too many fountains, sometimes it is getting me crazy when I am waiting for another building and they start to build yet another fountain. Meeh...

As to the gros bourg with hamlets, as someone mentioned here, I like it. I like it the same way I do the Hindi grand palace with hamlets. Yes, it takes a lot of space on the map, but, hello! The Minecraft map is endless with endless amount of space. I don't mind a few blocks of plains, forest or crappy mountain removed by the thriving medieval city. It really adds to that "medieval" feeling, when you find a village with hamlets. All I can add in that matter is that some hamlets look a bit too boring, having all similar buildings. In current verson of the mod, which has a lot of bugs, hamlets don't trade with each other properly and in many cases lumberjacks become stucked, so hamlets don't develop as they should. Which means I have to provide them everything, from gynormous amounts of stone to the same amount of wood. And when I nearly finished growing the full castle with hamlets, my game decided to give me a big Millenaire bug and corrupted all the villages. Yay! But I am very excited to try them out in a new version :D

As to the food topic: I never found much usage of a Norman food as it is. They are lacking crafting recipes, often shops with them are bugged and I can't buy them. They are so rare in my game I prefer to save my precious Boudin for some quest rather than use it. I am preparing Byzantine and Hindi meals very often, happilly growing all their special crops (and Japanese too!), but Norman food is really just boring. Maybe I would appreciate it most if I could craft it, or grow it, or, at least, have more chance to buy it.

As to the weapons: I didn't use it much. I bought something once or twice, but I have much more ways to use my iron than trading it with Normans, to be honest. (Always building new hopper-machine, or a railroad). This is why I am much more into the Mayan weapons. mayan weapons gave me the good usage of obsidian, and they are strong. Norman? Probably strong too. But I would really like if the Millenaire weapons could be enchantable, or at least, if I could repair them on the anvil. Now I just need to buy new and new. Maybe this is so to make us trade with them more?

Everyone mentioned arhitecture as a bit boring, but I may add their clothes. Most of the Norman villagers are really plain dressed. They deserve something new to put on ;) It can be 11th century, of course, but a bit more up to our current texture standards in Minecraft ;)
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby felinoel » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:53 pm

MoonCutter2B wrote:I like both the original versions of the buildings and the alternative ones from the Library.
Maybe have both? Or a mix of them? Some of the starting houses could be original design and the later that the player helps with an updated design.
One reason I like the newer designs is that I have to explore a bit more to find the stuff they need.
I'd also like to see some more types of houses, if possible combined with new professions/items in the village.
Like the glass blower from one of the add-ons in the Library. Not all of them has to be "working" but just to get more variations.
I'd like to see more trees, flowers, leaves etc. as part of the buildings.
What about a roman ruin as a decoration.
And something naval, a dock (if there is a lake/ocean close to the village).

True good point, maybe mix in some alternate building designs from the Library.

Xour wrote:I don't know about everyone else but when I see a Norman Gros-Bourg spawn with three hamlets I don't get excited, in fact I usually play with that village disabled. It takes up a lot of room in the world and it doesn't really feel like there that well connected. Just throwing that opinion out there.
I definitely disagree, I like it when the village is bigger, it is more to interact with.

I somewhat agree, there buildings are very basic but for some reason it feels like that's there role in millenaire, to fill in that basic culture style? Maybe they could start with that basic feel and end in a more grand manner? Even there unique blocks look very basic.
I agree with this and is what I said above that they feel like the control group in the cultures.

Like most of the civs, there tools and weapons are just a collection of gear that's slightly better than diamond. I'd like to think that all the civs are going to get a unique enchantment to there gear, as has been discussed before, so that there's a purpose in upgrading them specifically. The only thing I've ever done with Norman food, is sell it back to the villagers.
I've said for a while now that cultures need to learn to use Minecraft magic and I will agree with you in saying it here again.

SaintScotia wrote:When I reflect on my memories of the Norman's, I always return to the same thought: These noble people were the proverbial "Salt of the Earth". No frills. Nothing particularly fancy. Just good, strong, earth-bound folks who weren't flashy or overly pompous; folks that worked hard, took care of their own and made life "real". Do I want to trade with the castle? Yes. Do I want to farm veggies? Yes, I do.

The other Millenaire cultures, from the Mayan to the Byzantine, always struck me as exotic and more for the specialized player. While I deeply appreciate the diversity of the other cultures, I usually returned to my Norman villages first and cultivated their expansion.
My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby felinoel » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:39 am

You could give the Normans beetroot, I feel it would be more likely with the Byzantines but if you want to make the Normans more unique that could help?

We might just do that.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Ilovewash » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:52 pm

Hello

I agree with something that has been said before, if Norman would start to use magic in minecraft it would be awesome. And in this way, you could had a new NPG with his building : A kind of wizard
At the last evolution of his building/house, it will contain some stuff for potions, an enchantment table with some bookshelves around, but not so much, only 2/3/4 maybe. And maybe in the wizard's building it could have like a pigmen or a zombie villager behind a jail, as if it was an experiment.
Anyway this is some ideas :idea:

About the Norman's culture, I play with the Norman almost all the time (not that I don't like the others) so I don't know for the Japanese or the Mayan but I never found where we can see how much reputation points do we have. I know that the knight give us a sentence about it, but we don't know precisely how many points and there is a long way between the 2 last "grades".
But maybe it's a personal choice.


Sorry for my bad English for me too, I hope you'll understand me ^^
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Zoythrus » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:13 am

Ilovewash wrote:Hello

I agree with something that has been said before, if Norman would start to use magic in minecraft it would be awesome. And in this way, you could had a new NPG with his building : A kind of wizard
At the last evolution of his building/house, it will contain some stuff for potions, an enchantment table with some bookshelves around, but not so much, only 2/3/4 maybe. And maybe in the wizard's building it could have like a pigmen or a zombie villager behind a jail, as if it was an experiment.
Anyway this is some ideas :idea:

About the Norman's culture, I play with the Norman almost all the time (not that I don't like the others) so I don't know for the Japanese or the Mayan but I never found where we can see how much reputation points do we have. I know that the knight give us a sentence about it, but we don't know precisely how many points and there is a long way between the 2 last "grades".
But maybe it's a personal choice.


Sorry for my bad English for me too, I hope you'll understand me ^^


We plan on giving all cultures some form of magic, mainly through enchantments and potions.

About reputation, we like keeping it "fuzzy," instead of an explicit number. Although, we may find ways to make it a little more easy to read.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby sakkarCZ » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:49 pm

Is it possible that if there will be enough water near city (in place where can still villagers build theyr hauses) they will build something like harbor? There they will produce fishes and boats for example. You know normans were vikings and they are know for theyr fishery and boats. If this is possible i know that it will be so very hard to do. Maybe this is just an future idea what to improve.

Sorry for bad english.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby Zoythrus » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:47 pm

sakkarCZ wrote:Is it possible that if there will be enough water near city (in place where can still villagers build theyr hauses) they will build something like harbor? There they will produce fishes and boats for example. You know normans were vikings and they are know for theyr fishery and boats. If this is possible i know that it will be so very hard to do. Maybe this is just an future idea what to improve.

Sorry for bad english.


Naval features are planned for a later update. We haven't yet fleshed out just how they'd work, but boats and harbors will be a thing at some point.
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Re: Megathread: Let's Talk About the Normans

Postby sakkarCZ » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:04 pm

Some ideas around Normans

-Something like wall around the village could look great at Normans.

-It will be great if villages will be connected by roads, if they are friendly, like buildings in villages.

-It can be good if building of trench at fort main building will be on more upgrades, like 1/2 of trench on upgrade 3 and the othere one later (this is only example, i dont know when exactly trench is being builded)

Thank you for your hard work modders and sorry for my bad english.
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